The inflammatory feeling

Discussions about the most common form of male hair loss - androgenetic alopecia
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daveyreh
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:02 am

The inflammatory feeling

Post by daveyreh » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:59 am

At night, my hair looks "luxuriant" if I bust through some solid SE. During the day, it is dry and brittle and falling out slowly but surely. In the morning and night, my scalp is pretty relaxed. During the day at work, I will get those insane tingles (not the good kind where you know your scalp is loosening during the SE) that I just can't wait to SE away. During this "insane tingle", are follicles getting attacked? Is it ok to experience this without immediately fighting back with SE? I have been covertly sneaking in SE throughout the day at work, especially when things get busy, able to hide behind the desk I work at with shelves occluding my eyebrows and forehead from a lot of other coworkers, but I suspect I have been caught at least a few times. So how do you all deal with this issue?

A couple other things, obviously for Tom to address if he so chooses as he has by far the most experience, but also anyone else: the harm in smoking cigarettes is presumably more to do with its nicotinic action and not so much the actual toxic vapor right? I ask because I question how MJ might affect the whole physiology. Smoking it vs. vaping it. Back in the archives, somebody made an observation that they knew a person who smoked regularly and had a full head of hair. My observation is that WHILE under the influence of it, the scalp can seem really flexible. Upon waking the next morning, the scalp feels stiff (possible relaxation of the scalp muscles due to the MJ?). What's the har in the occassional cigarette too? Tom's suggestions in the archives are the occassional snack food, coffee or alcoholic drink may not be too bad.

Lastly, a question about Tom's history with this. Tom, you said you were getting thinning in the temporal part of your scalp. When you first started doing the SE, and for those first 8 months, did the thinning continue to progress? DId your hair darken in the time before regrowth, and if so, how do you explain that?

I suspect I have "MPB" as a "condition" pretty bad, but judging by the blacker hair I've attained (how does the hair achieve this color even though you may not see regrowth for at least 8 months? I've been doing them 3 months and its visibly darker....so these are new strands right?), I must be fighting it a little because I honestly think I should be bald by now. Having not cut my hair in 7 months, I still seem to have visibly about the same shape to my hair as back in March, it just looks darker and thinner in the front and crown. Thanks for any responses.

Tom Hagerty
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Posts: 614
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Re: The inflammatory feeling

Post by Tom Hagerty » Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:34 am

During this "insane tingle", are follicles getting attacked?
In my experience and in my research into the biology of hair growth I see no hint of the daily drama that you experience, but I know what you are talking about. It's easy to feel that things are happening in the scalp within the 24-hour time frame. Maybe "things" are happening but what really counts is the half year time frame. Are long-term benefits from the scalp exercise and nutritious diet impacting the hair follicles and the hair cycle in a positive way - that's the important question.
So how do you all deal with this issue?
I'm glad I don't have to deal with the issue. I never did the scalp exercise in public or "hiding behind my desk." I always do the SE in private because I don't want to be considered an eccentric an idiot or a clown.
smoking cigarettes is presumably more to do with its nicotinic action and not so much the actual toxic vapor right?
Cigarette smoking and MJ (marijuana) smoking constrict the capillaries in the scalp. This is something you don't want because the capillaries bring nutrients to the base of the hair follicles. The cells at the base of the follicle are rapidly dividing cells and need nutrients in order to produce a hair shaft which is composed of thousands of these cells. It's easy to find anecdotal evidence if you want to keep smoking (or drinking). You can always find a guy who smokes night and day who has fantastic hair. (And you can also find a guy who is always in the bar with fantastic hair too.) But even though a few cigarettes are not going to impede your progress in stabilizing your hair loss, it might be a good idea to give up the habit altogether. It's a dumb habit.
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An answer to your last question about my hair when I first started to do the scalp exercise: My thinning in the temple area did not progress but it took "forever" to grow back. When you're young eight months seems like forever. But what kept me going is that my dandruff problem and itching stopped! I never had a change of color in my hair. Even today my hair is dark except for the sideburns. But I attribute this to a good diet - plenty of copper, sulfur, zinc from natural sources.

daveyreh
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:02 am

Re: The inflammatory feeling

Post by daveyreh » Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:05 am

Thanks for the response Tom!
Yea, I guess I just work a stressful job that I kind of find boring and probably stress myself out a little more knowing that that might affect my hair that I love. That we all kind of love. I would have to say I'm pretty dedicated to these, but daily intensity with which I approach them is kind of taking over my life haha. What I mean is that I do them literally all day long with maybe only 10 minutes as the longest period of time between any single contractions...yea, pretty crazy. My hope is just to see as much potential and hopefully result in as little time as possible. Yes I know the hair cycles must transpire, or conspire, as the case may be over time, but my cycles are all messed up anyway due to using Rogaine for two years until an abrupt quit about a month ago. So yea, the up and downs of my day affect my hair I guess! But all in all, I would agree that I'm way healthier and serious about it than I was in June right before I started doing these. I have to remind myself you've been doing these for more than a half century! So my 3 months so far is paltry in comparison, but I do them literally all day, and by this point, you might have reached some sane level of exericse, never in public as you say.

How, then, do you explain the darker hair? I have read some of the articles on your site and done extensive research in other corners of the Google, and know that melanin goes into the color. The hair is a shaft; is melanin going up the shaft, even a telogen hair> Because the color result is on the tip, not just near the follice....so these have to be newly grown hairs since I've been doing SE, right? I will try to post some pics of color and coverage differences.

You might say you think these excercises look idiotic and alien and that anybody who sees you do them will freak out and ask you if you've developed a tic. But jumping jacks make you look cool? I guess since the eyebrows are so important in expression, and communicating with other people is 80% nonverbal, too many people might just go haywire, wondering if you're stepping to them or about to hold up a cafe. It makes me wonder about the perhaps 1000-2000 (maybe way more??) gyrating scalps all across the US of A everyday; I just imagine these scalps, in a slow montage across a political map of the country with the song "Proud to Be an American" playing in the background as scalps and eyebrows bounce around in a sort of patriotic state by state montage with a ghosting of an American flag waving in the wind...ok, I understand this is pretty international business, but we're in the land of the hair transplant and trying to defy that with the furious repetitice furrowing of the brow is SO American. Haha...

I have to admit my dandruff is nonexistant and all I deal with otherwise is intermitten tingles, but nothing Ragnarokian like I did while I was on Rogaine; there's just something biologically wrong with having a full head of wispy-ish hair (rogaine) with intense flakiness and redness (inflammation). If I touch my scalp, especially on the crown, the hair feels pretty soft and the scalp underneath calm. What a difference.
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7/29; learned to leave oil in my hair overnght from a guy on YT and it made a bald spot appear in public on me.
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August 4th, a week after my crown looked like the next photo (I used oil which might make a difference) Oiled my hair
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November of 2014 after 1 year or so on Rogaine
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daveyreh
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:02 am

Re: The inflammatory feeling

Post by daveyreh » Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:13 am

Everybody says there is never any photographic evidence. I don't know what I'm trying to show. I mean, I know I'm not a norwood 7 but there is some crown hair loss as compared to this time last year. However I have been completely without Rogaine for 1 month, having used it very sparsely the past two months. I think there is a definite color change and texture change too. But lighting is definitely not the same between all photos. I should mention I'm 33 years old. No health problems. Have kind of a flexible scalp. I hae no photos from right at the time of the SE, because I had only been using my camera phone as a mirror for showing me what I was losing at a breakneck pace.

I think it might have slowed down some now. I just wonder what's next, but I do the SE faithfully, because either way, toned scalp muscles have their benefits. I do the neck exercises on the stairstepper when I do interval training. I'll do them on the faster setting to make that portion of the interval super intense. I do the bony sockets eye exercise every morning when I wake up and intermittently at work during long periods of staring at a computer screen. And to relieve acute exasperation.
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Another view on 10/28
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10/28, very dry non oiled hair, 3 months into the SE
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Tom Hagerty
Site Admin
Posts: 614
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:21 am

Re: The inflammatory feeling

Post by Tom Hagerty » Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:45 pm

My hope is just to see as much potential and hopefully result in as little time as possible.
I don't think doing the scalp exercise night and day will speed things up. Your hair follicles and your scalp cells probably have a different schedule than your "Ragnarokian" pace. But let's see what happens in the months to ahead. The SE is important but so are life style choices - like a nutritious diet and exercise - and not smoking more than three packs a day.

You're interested in what gives color to the hair and what takes it away. Dietary trace minerals ( copper, zinc, sulfur) are important for maintaining the original color of the hair. I prefer to get these trace minerals from natural sources. Here's just one biochemical fact that you can obsess over: The trace mineral copper aids in the conversion of the amino acid tyrosine into the dark pigment that gives color to the hair. The dark pigment is melanin.

Anyway, if you get thrown into the booby hatch for doing the scalp exercise when impressionable youth are watching, I'll come and help you escape.

daveyreh
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:02 am

Re: The inflammatory feeling

Post by daveyreh » Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:42 am

Tom,
Yes you are right. I guess my thinking is that, if things don't work out, I don't want to wonder if I didn't do it enough. I understand that what I'm really hoping for is, yea, that angiogenesis, and for that to make it to the base of the hair follicles. Provide that courier service for the follicle. As to the second part of your post, what do you think of blackstrap molasses as a source of trace minerals? In the United States I'm told its a hard food to get copper in (zinc, iron and manganese are plentiful though), and get copper mostly from avocado. I actually try to eat a whole avocado a day and get my probiotics from kombucha (<<are you familiar with this magic tea?) primarily and then supplement with goat milk yogurt. It might just be in my head but I notice that my hair gets that luxuriant "sheen" a few hours after I ingest my BSM+kom, but seems to bring a little shedding with it too.

So I guess what I was asking about the hair color, and I'll try to pick my words carefully: so it seems like my hair color has transitioned within the 3 months I've been doing SE. Looking at the lengths of the hair cycles, I surmise that I perhaps have some shortened anagen phases right now (?). Because can the individual hair shaft change color like that withIN the anagen phase of growth? Or, like the change in morphology (size) of the follicle, this is a change that can only be implemented in between hair cycles? It seems to me that I'm not understanding the actual visual aspect of hair color. Like, I'm thinking you're staying positive for me but thinking "his anagen phases are truncated, so the quick change in hair color he says he experiences is actually a shortened anagen phase, the old hair fell out quickly, and then was replaced by a new anagen hair in a quick manner with a darker pigment"---does this make sense? Thanks for the biochemical explanation though too, I dig that kind of stuff too.

I will post pics soon of my war zone of frontal hairline which seems to hae a different shape everyday.

daveyreh
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:02 am

Re: The inflammatory feeling

Post by daveyreh » Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:35 am

My 5 month benchmarks after biting the bullet and getting a haircut! I'm pretty happy with this even if progress is not noticeable to others.

5 months in what I notice is:

I believed the hair at the base of each strand on the top of my head was looking darker and healthier. Beforehand, the tips were all thin and jagged in comparison, making me look like I got electrocuted if I kept it long. Which was why I got the haircut. THe hair underneath , the newly grown stuff, looks
a)a little darker
b) softer, suppler, a little easier to comb
c) to appear to be distributed more evenly on my head in the areas that were thinning
d) more manageable as far as morphing different hairstyles out of what I have...pliable
e) was getting some gray early on; post haircut, do not see any gray
f) itching was intense, and still is sometimes, though far and away less often...10 minutes of SE seems to refresh the head as an antidote

I believed it would be harder to cover bald/balding spots if I got my haircut so I put it off forever. It shed all the time---I'd find hairs on the rim of my glasses or in the sink when I didn't even touch it. On top of that, I was looking pretty trashy, especially feeling unpresentable at work, where all the men are balding and keep their hair short anyway, However, for some reason, post cut, my hair style looks more tidy and the barbress, though she lopped off a huge portion of the cetner of my frontal hairline (where the hair is just growing unbelievably shiny and long), seems to have felt like she was done with it though I asked her to cut shorter. I say this because this area probably could have been left shorter, but wouldn't have looked "thin" necessarily, I think.

This is just after 5 months. To recap, I cross-faded minoxidil with the Hagerty SE regimen, meaning I started the SE while I was still on minox and finally stepped off it for good around September or so. I had been on that for 2 years and it irritated the b'jesus out of my scalp but was successful in that it kept hair on my head.

I'm being so qualitative and aesthetic about my observations. I figure, I'm in the medical industry, I should be really be focused on and sharing my observations in light of the phyisiology, the mechanodynamics and the "why". I should help elucidate why it MIGHT work by pouring through some research and utiliing my educational background to perhaps reach folks who want good results for their hair but won't budge or committ to something like this because of the lack of evidence around it. The lack of studies, in other words, are the non-starter that keeps from lift-off. Not landing on the moon, just lift off.

But, alas I don't care about these things so much now that I have some personal experience, albeit a blink of the eye compared to Tom. What the SE has given me is a chance to see some change powered by determination and positivity. To really look at the body as a machine for its own healing and improvement. To be willing to think outside of the box on pure faith.

At the end of the day, no matter who we are, we are chancing the arm here with SE because we want to believe what Tom has been doing for a good 3/4 of his life has something to it. The marketing schemes are numerous, and what I've learned is that men, for being labeled unemotive and lackadaisical about things as compared to women, actually go quite crazy when it comes to hairloss. We've tried the chemicals, including the ones you can only get with a shipping and handling charge, we've believed our families who told us we will be bald like all our other relatives. The wigs, the hair transplants, TRYING SE, are all examples of ways follicully challenged individuals try to overcome what they think is fate.

What I make of all of it is that for this to work, you have to be willing to go the straight and narrow healthwise. I'm pretty much gluten free now, and highly restrictive of excess sugar. Juice everyday. Some kind of probiotic. Cod liver oil and black strap molasses maybe 4 times a week. Other than that, I'm the same person and can still relate to society, and haven't messed around with a wig or hair transplant YET. Life's going pretty swimmingly and look forward to continued improvement and I wish you all the same. Now if my hair will just grow faster and if I can get that crown and front completely patched up so I can be 24 for the rest of my life.

Thanks a ton Tom. You need to be a celebrity :D
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The front, 5 months in, after a drastic haircut, no excess hair to hide bald spots
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The sides 5 months into SE
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December 2015 crown and back, 5 month SE point, very similar to November of 2014!
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