Telogen/Exogen phase vs. bigger hair shaft

Discussions about the most common form of male hair loss - androgenetic alopecia
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daveyreh
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Telogen/Exogen phase vs. bigger hair shaft

Post by daveyreh » Mon Sep 28, 2015 3:10 am

Is it conceivable, that while we're shedding hair upon doing the scalp exercise at the beginning, that the hairs that fall out are coming out because the tiny shaft that sprouted from the follice has in fact gotten bigger, and is not too spacey to grip the hair strand, and that's why it falls out? Did anybody experience that followed by some regrowth?

What I mean is, what if part of hairloss reversal is that the hair sheds not because of a phase of the hair cycle, but because of the follice has enlarged and the bore the hair was coming out of is too wide to support it, so as to make room for a new strand that is thicker? Or am I just way off here?

Tom Hagerty
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Re: Telogen/Exogen phase vs. bigger hair shaft

Post by Tom Hagerty » Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:23 am

the hairs that fall out are coming out because the tiny shaft that sprouted from the follice has in fact gotten bigger
The hair shaft, the hair itself, does not get any bigger in the long anagen stage of the hair cycle. The only time the hair shaft may get bigger is in the earliest stage of the hair cycle. The hair canal accommodates the size of the hair shaft - it shrinks or becomes larger. Take a look at the complexity of this mini-organ that encapsulates the hair shaft which finally emerges through the opening in the hair canal.
Anatomy of the hair follicle.jpg
A complex bit of anatomy
Anatomy of the hair follicle.jpg (9.18 KiB) Viewed 11549 times
The telogen hair falls out when its ready to - when the hair bulb can no longer hold it in place. Some researchers think that the old telogen hair is "pushed out" by the new hair shaft but other researchers think that the old telogen hair is just released when the time is right. I don't think this controversy really matters to those of us who just want hair stabilization or more hair density.

daveyreh
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Re: Telogen/Exogen phase vs. bigger hair shaft

Post by daveyreh » Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:18 pm

Tom, so minoxidil synchronizes the hair follicle stages so they all coincide, at least in theory. What do you think about this? Is there any advantages or disadvantages you can think of? If we're minoxidil-ing and doing scalp exercise and the SEs work, then although telogen hairs fall out, you may have growth from that particular follicle in three months. If all the follicles are synchronized, you'll lose it all at once, and then it should all come back at the same time, or no?

Tom Hagerty
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Re: Telogen/Exogen phase vs. bigger hair shaft

Post by Tom Hagerty » Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:53 pm

Daveyrey, read this long post by DoctorHouse. There is some good instructional stuff in it. In fact, read the whole thread.

daveyreh
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Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:02 am

Re: Telogen/Exogen phase vs. bigger hair shaft

Post by daveyreh » Sun Oct 11, 2015 12:42 pm

It was a good read but some of what was said on that thread seems to contradict what we have established on this site as fact. For example, if minox synchronizes and prolongs the growth cycle of all hairs, how would hair get thicker and longer in the first two years of use (assuming both those years, or during a majority of them, almost all your hair is in the anagen phase, when hair shafts/follicles can't change in size)? Also, how do we know we are lengthening the anagen phase of the hair follicles with minox? What evidence is there for that? Minoxidil as an oral drug is something I see all the time in patients who have really old school doctors; they can be thought of as potent vasodilators like hydralazine or nitroglycerin, but yet hydralazine isn't associated with VGEF production increase. I would think a vasodilator strictly enables a greater blood supply to come to the scalp, but does it work if the individual smokes?

I do think there is a lot to be said about the psychological benefit (I guess I wouldn't call it an "escape") of leaning on "well, i'm trying to do something about it at least". But what's funny is that the original poster says he got "sides" from minox. I wonder what sides he refers to. I would assume that if you get good perfusion of the medicine in the scalp, so if you have a healthy scalp, you will get some minox into the blood and get vasodilation at least locally. I think I have gotten syncope type symptoms sometimes when I used too much medication on a wet head, making me feel dizzy or constipated.

Have you ever tried the minox dance Tom? I'm going to assume no, but do you really think something like minoxidil is enough to influence something as genetically programmed as hair cycle? I wonder how your hair would respond to it at this stage in your life...However, the explanation of Propecia causing larger sheds just seems implausible to me. We know a bit more about that drug and I really can't ascertain how inhibiting the enzyme that would have enabled more and more of a follicle-miniaturizing substance to do its thing would cause more programmed sheds.

In your opinion, after years of doing the SEs, what do you think a hypothetical medication that does everything physiologically to the scalp that the SEs do would CONTRIBUTE to someone trying to regrow their hair? Draining/dislodging DHT, improving vascularity around the muscles in the scalp and redirecting blood flow? It would seem to me that that if that were the case, it would provide the best of both propecia and minox's effects.

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