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jpj
Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 11:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

www.ncbi.nlm.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retneve&db=PubMed&list_vids=335742&dopt=A bstract

Alpha linoleic and Gamma Linoleic were the best natural fatty acids at inhibiting alpha 5 reductase from making DHT from T. Linoleic, Oleic, Linolenic also inhibited alpha 5 reductase. This is in Flaxseed oil, but the triglyceride form that its in cannot penetrate the skin well enough to get down to follicle papillas.

Emu Oil is 50% Oleic acid according to Dr. Craig Smith at Auburn University and 20% Linoleic acid with small amounts of Linolenic acid also. Due to the fact that it has no phosphorous, Emu Oil penetrates the skin EXTREMELY well. Dr. Michael Holick, Professor of Medicine, Physiology, and Dermatology at Boston University School of Medicine claimed Emu gave a 20% increase in DNA synthesis and an 80% conversion of telogen follicles to anagen ones in one experiment. Perhaps the Emu Oil can get the 3 DHT inhibiting fatty acids it posseses to the papillas and the sebaceous glands due to its penetrating properties.

Dr. Loren Pickart sells the Emu on his site as an adjunctive to his Folligen. Wonder if he thinks it works or just sells it because folks buy it? Anyway on Wikpedia encyclopedia it is claimed that Essential Fatty Acids (that we HAVE to get from our diets--we dont make'em) help maintain the intergrity of cell walls and without them cell walls develop leaks and they also eliminate toxins and clease the blood. Emu is a mild diuretic like Jojoba is also (might give ya' a mild "hangover headache" in the morn if applied at night). Emu also has Vitamin A and E.

I wish some entity could test this substance for topical DHT inhibition as opposed to Saw Palmetto oils and various sterols. If anything could get a topical DHT inhibitor down to follicle level, Im guessing the emu oil could. It would be nice to get off propecia (and stop paying for it) and not worry about long term side effects.
 

biknut
Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 12:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

i take a supplement called total efa. it's a blend of omega 3 6 9 and flaxseed and fish oil. i take it orally. i don't think it helps my hair very much, but i think it's good for you so i've been taking it for 8 or 9 years. i think total efa is the best of the efa supplements.
 

Anonymous
Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 11:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

If any of you are familiar with Mary Shomans thyroid website.
She claims to have loss most of her hair, and was recommended Evening Primrose oil , which she says grew all her hair back. There is a picture of her with a beautiful full head of hair right next to her own testimonial, but no before picture. Evening Primrose oil is high in EFA's
I believe only woman can take it on a daily basis though, unless you want to grow breasts.
 

Tom Hagerty
Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 11:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Anonymous:

You wrote, "Evening Primrose oil is high in EFA's
I believe only woman can take it on a daily basis though, unless you want to grow breasts."

I wish you could find an article that states that only women can take Evening Primrose Oil. I have never seen anything in print that suggests that this product has plant estrogen in it. Plant estrogen (a phytochemical) can cause gynecomastia - excessive development of the breast in a man.

Last year I used to take Evening Primrose Oil but now I take Black Current Oil - 535 mg. softgels from Puritan's Pride. It has more GLA than Evening Primrose Oil.
 

Tom Hagerty
Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 11:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

JPJ:

Is there some way you could fix that link that started this thread? It's not working. I'd like to read the article. This stuff on emu oil is exciting. I'm going to read more about it and probably get some. I wonder is Loren Pickart uses it. That would be a good indication of its worth.
 

Anonymous
Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 02:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Tom,

I had either telogen effluvium or alopecia areata as a reaction to a topical product with a high alcohol content. I was applying this product (which contained green tea and biotin as actives) to my crown and temples as a prophylactic (my Dad is bald and my big brother is going the same way and I thought I noticed some thinning so I was afraid of that, too)...

little did I know! After about six months of product use all my hair fell out where I was applying the product most heavily. Before that I had quite dense hair all over ... this was the most devastating thing I ever experienced. For six months it was impossible for me to leave home without a cap. Then I started applying emu oil regularly (Pickart's emu oil for skin to be exact) and the hair in my crown came back, and it also gave a boost to the hair in my temples (I'm totally convinced that the oil gave my hair a huge boost, though of course maybe it just started coming back all of it's own after I stopped using the topical).

I'm low on cash so I stopped using emu oil, and the hair in my temples stopped improving, though I've been able to maintain the hair in my crown. Then I discovered the scalp exercises so that's the only thing in my regimen right now, but based on my previous experience I think applying emu oil and then doing the scalp exercises might prove an extremely effective combo... I noticed Eric was going to start on this, and I'm glad to see that you think this is promising, too! I'm so convinced of the scalp exercises that I think they should form the basis of any regimen, but maybe I'll start with the emu oil again, too, since you seem to think it holds promise and because of my own positive experience.

By the way, thanks so much for sharing all your expertise with the rest of us ... In my book, besides being the only person with enough sense to discover the key to scalp and hair health you're the one true altruist in the hair loss industry

All the best
 

Anonymous
Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 06:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Tom

http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/DVH/HerbsWho/0,3923,4010%7CEvening+Primrose,00.html

Chemicals called isoflavones, which belong to a larger class of plant chemicals known as phyto (plant-derived) estrogens, are contained in evening primrose oil. Because isoflavones are similar in shape to the female hormone, estrogen, they may attach to estrogen receptors – potentially displacing some of the natural estrogens in a woman’s body. Therefore, isoflavones may possibly prevent or relieve estrogen-related symptoms, such as breast pain, that are associated with premenstrual syndrome (PMS). Additionally, women who have PMS may also have a decreased ability to convert linoleic acid into GLA. Some evidence shows that symptoms of PMS and menopause may be worsened by deficiencies of EFAs. Therefore, both its isoflavones and its EFAs may give evening primrose oil some ability to relieve PMS, as well as symptoms of menopause.
*********************

Tom go to google and type in Evening primrose oil estrogen....I just took the first, there are several
 

Eric
Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 07:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Anonymous,

Thanks for the compliment. I hope the Emu works well for you. Like you, I believe strongly that the SE's should be at the very top of the list to battling baldness. I believe Emu oil has natural EFA's which are good in maintaining hair health. I would much rather use Emu Oil topically than Rogaine which may cause heart problems. It also has Propylene Glycol which can be absorbed into the bloodstream (but only a very minute amount). I'm going to give this Emu Oil a try and see what happens. My hair is in good condition. It will never be the way it was when I was in high school, but that's what happens as you age. I'm satisfied with my hair and I swear by Tom's scalp exercises. I just wish more people knew about this (and learn at an early age). Well, good luck everyone! God Bless!
Eric R.
 

pete1
Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 11:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

EFA's are useful in when looking at helping with inflammtion. For male hairloss - look for 5ar inhibitors!
 

jpj
Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 09:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=3357342&query_hl=2

Tom, this is the link about the alpha 5 fatty acids at PubMed. My Gosh, they make those addys long.

I got the info about Emu Oil from Wikipedia encyclopedia at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emu_oil
I hope that addy works, but you can google emu oil and Wikipedia and you'll get it. It was the info about Emu's content and Dr. Smith at Auburn.

I did check up on Pickart's claims that Copper (Cu) inhibiting type 1 alpha 5 by 50% and found it at ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=778354&dopt= Absrtact


I know now that Omega-3's are super helpful in anti cancer diets that docs advise folks to get on which is interesting also. A handful of walnuts and almonds are better for us than we think? : )
 

Anonymous
Posted on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 12:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Wow I tried some emu soap bar on my hair this morning, I had the least amout of hair in my comb in months. I am not a counter, but seems to be less than 10 hairs. way less than before.
Maybe this stuff is the real deal.
I was wondering..I read that Emu oil penatrates the skin because it doesnt contain Potassium.
seem if a EMU oil shampoo or soap contained potassium, that it would render Emu oil useless.
seem logical?...I think alot of shampoos contain potassium, or is that not true?
 

Tom Hagerty
Posted on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 06:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

jpj:

That link to Pickart's claims about Cu didn't work. It brought me something on medicine in ancient Egypt. That's all I need - crocodile fat and hippopotamus dung.
 

Anonymous
Posted on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 06:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Hey Tom I love your sense of humor...keep it up buddy (I know it sounds strange talking like this to a 74 year old man but you certainly don't seem 74... must be those darn scalp exercises : )
 

jpj
Posted on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 06:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=6 200704&dopt=Abstract

This should be the correct link for the Cu (Copper) inhibiting DHT. Pickart claims fifty percent of the type 1, the type Propecia doesnt inhibit. Ive read this somewhere else also, but cant remember where.
 

jpj
Posted on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 06:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Tom, Here is a PubMed study showing Saw Palmetto reducing DHT by 32%....http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1 1337315&dopt=Citation
 

Colm F
Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 07:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Hi guys,
Just got a (very) small bottle of emu oil in the post which cost about €30. I'm almost afraid to open it at that price!
Just wondering what you guys do with it, do you leave it on for a while before shampooing or what?
I'm not in a position to apply it during the day but i could do it in the evening.
Again the Scalp Exercises haven't stopped or slowed my hair loss though i still try to do them every day. I suppose they might be keeping the follicles semi-active pending some possible future solution.
Let me know what you do with the emu oil.
Cheers,
Colm F
 

anon
Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 07:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Apply at night and wash it out the next morning. Stick with it for at least three months to judge results. Best of luck!
 

matt
Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 02:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Tom Haggarty wrote:

>JPJ:
>
>Is there some way you could fix that link that >started this thread? It's not working. I'd like to >read the article. This stuff on emu oil is >exciting. I'm going to read more about it and >probably get some. I wonder if Loren Pickart uses >it. That would be a good indication of its worth.


Tom, I've been using Emu Oil along with folligen cream (copper peptides) for 8 months or so and I have definetely expereienced a thickening even moreso then before. The way I tell is when my hair is completely saturated, after a shower for example, I have almost zero signs of scalp showing through. And as we all know, this is when our hair is in its weakest form, when its soaking wet.


The problem is I don't know if its been the emu oil, the folligen or simply because I am hitting the 2 year period of which is when propecia is supposed to get the maximum results, along with minox of course. I have a strong feeling its a combination of the folligen and emu oil though.

the emu oil is messy and needs to be washed out if you plan on going somewhere but it only needs an application of once every 2 days or so, so not that big a deal.
 

Anagen
Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 06:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

The problem is I don't know if its been the emu oil, the folligen or simply because I am hitting the 2 year period of which is when propecia is supposed to get the maximum results, along with minox of course. I have a strong feeling its a combination of the folligen and emu oil though.>

I don't think there is any doubt as to what has led to your thickening.
 

anon
Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 02:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

"I don't think there is any doubt as to what has led to your thickening."

You seem to have a very limited and conventional perspective. Here's a guy (Tone from Hairlosshelp) who lost a ton of hair after being on "the big three" for a year.

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/websites/Tone/

Maybe adding folligen, emu oil and the scalp exercises would have led to much better results. Matt seems to think that's true for him, but of course you know better.
 

Anagen
Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 07:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

He is using a combination of the two clinically proven treatments and you are trying to make a point using one man's example?

Of course I know better.

Matt is like demolishing a building with explosives and attributing it to insufficient foundation.
 

anon
Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 08:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

"He is using a combination of the two clinically proven treatments and you are trying to make a point using one man's example?"


lol There are innumerable examples like that on all hair loss forums. This is Tom's assessment on the effectiveness of propecia and rogaine:
"No matter what you read about Rogaine and Propecia, the success rate for these drugs is less than 35 percent - success being defined as a moderate to dense growth of terminal hair within a period of a year."


Back to you:
"Matt is like demolishing a building with explosives and attributing it to insufficient foundation."


If "the two clinically proven treatments" were all that great Tom's forum and all other hair loss forums would not even be around because no one would have a problem with hair loss any more. There is hardly ANYONE on any of these forums with excellent results on these drugs (except for maintenance). That's why everyone always keeps experimenting...duh.

For your info: FDA approved does not mean better. Finasteride and minoxidil would have worked equally well prior to getting FDA approval. Obviously, the only reason clinical studies were conducted was because it was worth $$$$ for Merck and Upjohn to gain FDA approval. No one will pay millions of dollars to conduct studies on substances which can't be patented (or on the scalp exercises for that matter) but which may work just as well or better. Clinically proven = better is an extremely weak argument.


"Of course I know better."

Of course.
 

Anagen
Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 09:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

"lol There are innumerable examples like that on all hair loss forums."

Of course. They are hairloss forums.

"This is Tom's assessment on the effectiveness of propecia and rogaine:
"No matter what you read about Rogaine and Propecia, the success rate for these drugs is less than 35 percent - success being defined as a moderate to dense growth of terminal hair within a period of a year.""

Success is not only regrowth. Success is maintenance too.

If these are Tom's words I would like him to confirm this so that we can discuss some more over it.

"If "the two clinically proven treatments" were all that great Tom's forum and all other hair loss forums would not even be around because no one would have a problem with hair loss any more. There is hardly ANYONE on any of these forums with excellent results on these drugs (except for maintenance). That's why everyone always keeps experimenting...duh."

"duh"? You seem to be stealing my lines. Nobody said that these drugs are panacea. You have a black and white vision I guess. There are treatments about cancer too and people keep dying of cancer. Your arguments are ridiculous.

"FDA approved does not mean better. Finasteride and minoxidil would have worked equally well prior to getting FDA approval".

That was really funny. FDA trials were not conducted so that these products work better. They were conducted so that people like you can filter things that have high probability of working and not being lost in a sea of snakeoils and "natural" products.

So what evidence would satisfy you? Personal experience? Another mans experience? Or many thousand men's experiences strictly monitored?

FDA trials are highly structured trials, lasting months. I would not trust anyone blindly(Including you, Tom, the FDA, my own mind playing tricks on me). You seem to disdain clinical proof with ease- the only real proof we have in this endless sea of snake oil.

Funny how you use the paradigms of men who fail on treatments to show that emu oil was the thing that worked for matt. Mat is combining two treatments with high probabilities of success and synergistic action.These things work for most, either you like it, or not.

We can kick the supposed "safety" of these products together on the head for as long as you like. But denying the efficacy of these products based on a testimonial of a hairloss forum poster is really a stretch.

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions/viewtopic.php?t=21717&start=0

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions/viewtopic.php?

t=21693http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions/viewforum.php?f=30

A man that never saw results can flood a forum. A man who succeeded will probably never return, unless he is Tom Hagerty.
 

matt
Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 10:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

anon, anagen... I believe I have been misunderstood. I profoundly believe that the real reason for my success is the result of propecia/minox/nizoral. No question about it. However I have been experimenting with other treatments, such as folligen/emu oil, etc., to see how they work. I am not claiming that my hair condition at this point is solely based on my starting emu oil and folligen 8 months ago, but understand that any type of positive results are certainly synergistic if you are taking more then 1 medication for hairloss, in this case minox and propecia, which are the best we have available, and 'perhaps' what else has been added since.


It was not my intention to state that emu oil/folligen alone, solely changed the condition of my hair, yet I wanted to share my experiences and opinions with the products.

Until double blind studies are done on these products over 8-12 month periods using nothing but 1 or both of these products then everything else is just HERESAY! I have been around enough to understand that.

Fair enough?
 

Anagen
Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 11:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

matt:

Could not have put it better.
 

James
Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 11:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

Matt you are truly awesome man!!
 

matt
Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 11:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

by the way, anagen, I frequent hairlosstalk.com quite a bit also, and post under 'shedmaster.'

hairloss-reversible was my 1st board I found back in the day, when I tried the scalp exercises for 8 months.
 

Anagen
Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 11:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

I am SE-freak.
 

Anonymous
Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 12:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

I rock cheese on my head but dont call me a cheese head
 

matt
Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 02:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

bruce lee's on my head but don't call me a lee head.
 

anon
Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 12:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Anagen, there is really no use discussing things with you because you keep twisting my arguments. All I was saying was to keep an open mind.

Nowhere did I disparage clinically approved treatments [contrary to your baseless imputations]; however, it seems obvious to me that there might be lots of treatments out there (e.g Zix, Spiro, Nano, the scalp exercises) which may work just as well or better than clinically approved treatments but for which it wouldn't pay ANYONE to conduct clinical trials.

If there is no money in it nobody is going to do it. You really seem to have a hard time grasping that fact. For instance, this is total bs:
"FDA trials were not conducted so that these products work better. They were conducted so that people like you can filter things that have high probability of working and not being lost in a sea of snakeoils and "natural" products."


The FDA is NOT interested in finding hair loss solutions for you and me. Neither are the major drug companies (drug companies are interested in marketing drugs which can earn them money. They are NOT interested in finding solutions to any given medical condition ... this is only incidental to the earnings potential).

However, the FDA IS interested in the efficacy and safety of products. THIS is why they require clinical studies. In other words, the FDA couldn't care less if there are products treating hair loss out there or not. However, IF companies want to market products as hair loss treatments, the FDA requires companies to prove their claims.

This would be a good thing IF the only possible solution to hair loss could come from companies which are well capitilised AND if it was possible for these companies to take out patents to ensure that they will make a profit. There is absolutely no reason to believe that these two conditions hold, however.

Companies ARE willing to look for solutions but ONLY if they think it will improve their bottom line. Since marketing any such products costs huge amounts of money because of the required clinical trials it is only worth conducting such trials if the company has sufficient resources to do so AND if the products can be patented.

For instance, if some private individual takes out a patent on a great approach to combatting hair loss but does not have the money to conduct trials there will be no such trials no matter how effective the substance. Again, if it's not possible to take out a patent and there is no money to be gained (as with zix or emu oil) there will NEVER be a clinical trial. That should be obvious to most people.

This does NOT mean clinically proven treatments work better ... all it says is that companies thought it worth their while to conduct clinical trials because of the profit potential, which obviously exists only if a) the product seems to work b) the company can take out a patent.

I do find the self righteousness of advocates of so-called proven treatments such as yourself rather revolting ... For instance, I believe that Michael Holick of Boston University has a lot more credibility than you do. Holick conducted much of the fundamental research concerning Vitamin D and has also been instrumental in demonstrating the benefits of emu oil for hair growth [in unpublished studies]. Scientists who are passionate about their field as I believe Holick is usually have a high honour code, so why should I disbelieve his results as to the conversion to anagen with emu oil even though he didn't bother getting his study published as yet? Holick certainly knows how to conduct clinical trials/studies much better than you do, and I see absolutely no reason to distrust his honesty.

I did stumble across some posts on HLT which cast serious doubt on your credibility, however...It's an exchange between jfrank and yourself [Anagen=SE-Freak]. Here you go.
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions/viewtopic.php?t=21567&postdays=0&postord er=asc&start=0
jfrank wrote [Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:49 am]:
"i'm on month 8 of fin. The shed never stoped but slowed down, but up again... I have lost so much hair, that i look bald already.. before fin, i was only thinning diffusely.."

These are his pics. Hair is definitely going south
April 20
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/websites/jfrank/jfrank_3.jpg
October6
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/websites/jfrank/jfrank_5.jpg

For some strange reason you can’t tell though:
SE-Freak: wrote [Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 2:01 pm]:
"I see a change in texture. Cannot really estimate change in density as these pictures are taken in different angle/lighting and have very poor quality"

Wow man, you should have your eyes checked. The poor fellow is like totally going bald but since he's on a 'proven' treatment you can't see the obvious. I think this says a lot about your judgment and goes to show how biased you are. Seriously man, you're letting your prejudice get the better of you. Since you post here a lot and like to pretend you know it all I thought people might be interested. Kind of seems things you say need to be taken with a grain of salt. Anyway, best of luck to you.
Anonymous
 

Bon-Anagen-SEfreak
Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 08:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

My words:

"FDA trials were not conducted so that these products work better. They were conducted so that people like you can filter things that have high probability of working and not being lost in a sea of snakeoils and "natural" products."

were merely an answer to this stupidity:

"FDA approved does not mean better. Finasteride and minoxidil would have worked equally well prior to getting FDA approval".

THE EARTH WAS A SPHERE BEFORE WE DISCOVERED IT. SO WHY DID WE BOTHER? That is a fair illustration of your logic.Did you even took the time to see what I was answering to?
_________________________________________________

You wrote:
"The FDA is NOT interested in finding hair loss solutions for you and me"

What matters is THE RESULT. Everyone wants your money. So you will stop consuming any good of the civilized world? Huh, Crusoe?

You have it all cleared up. You vs the money making world... Well I never talked about intentions. FDA testing is just a crappy-yet most precious- filter. There are people out there lost in a sea of fraud, butchered or scammed to death.
_______________________________________________

"I do find the self righteousness of advocates of so-called proven treatments such as yourself rather revolting ... For instance, I believe that Michael Holick of Boston University has a lot more credibility than you do. Holick conducted much of the fundamental research concerning Vitamin D and has also been instrumental in demonstrating the benefits of emu oil for hair growth [in unpublished studies]. Scientists who are passionate about their field as I believe Holick is usually have a high honour code, so why should I disbelieve his results as to the conversion to anagen with emu oil even though he didn't bother getting his study published as yet? Holick certainly knows how to conduct clinical trials/studies much better than you do, and I see absolutely no reason to distrust his honesty. "

Blahblahblahblah.Blah. Did I ever introduce myself as a scientist or any kind of authority? DID I TELL YOU THAT THESE DRUGS ARE GOOD BECAUSE I THINK SO? *I* am twisting your arguments?

I merely said that a man under those two treatments has a very good chance of regrowth and matt regrew hair obviously not because of emu oil. Stop making a fool of yourself denying that.

"I did stumble across some posts on HLT which cast serious doubt on your credibility"

So tell me anon, is this dispute a dispute about credibility? Are you looking for the ultimate credible source? Are you looking for your personal hairloss messiah?

I will not start talking about the rules of correct photographic assessment. I will not bother.
_________________________________________________

Before letting hell break loose, as you have repeatedly insulted me,lets assume that I am biased and want to push treatments. That I have no credibility-which is really irrelevant as we are not a pack of lions here respecting the elder more credible male. We should be discussing as equals. So lets accept all these anon. And move on.

What does a case of a non responder prove? Is a case of a man that continues to lose his hair a real argument? You keep throwing that over and over like a broken record. Your "credible scientific thought" dictates that a treatment has either 100% success rate or zero. You are not being logical. You are a childish bulldoze steamrolling everything.

If you were just willing to bash me as a person then you are missing the point of this conversation.This conversation is about CRITERIA and you are lacking it-ultimately.

I used to be the most dedicated maniac SEr around here. I reported performing the SE for hours daily. I still am. Consistently. And you know what? I still think it's worth it. Do you hear me shout that the SE is the way out of hairloss? No. The SE is not proven to work. It just makes sense. It is a personal experiment.

Do you want to follow your path of personal experiments? By all means. That is not the quest of the average HL sufferer.
________________________________________________

Ok buddy...enough civilized talk. You have really pissed me off. Not because of your beliefs, but because of your way you are attacking me instead of facing my arguments. You don't know me. Bashing me instead of my arguments is the way of the goose, goose.

I questioned your arguments, you questioned my credibility, my motives and my eyesight. If you want to discuss jfranks case we could sometime do so if you grow some balls and start using a nickname.

You spit your little slimy words with ease:

"Since you post here a lot and like to pretend you know it all I thought people might be interested".

You did a good job exposing me. *Clap clap clap* You have some nerve assigning yourself as a credible judge of others.The crowds await you. Start reading through my posts on hairloss-reversible.com this many months and redefine your impression of my level of credibility if you even want to sound like a sane man's distant memory.
 

anon
Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 07:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post

Anagen, you're a complete idiot. Thanks for making it glaringly obvious.
 

Anagen
Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 06:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post

That was a driving argumentation.

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