| Author | Message | ||
     joshua New member Username: Josh Post Number: 7 Registered: 09-2007 |
I have posted here before about my sudden onset of hairloss and acne, after three months of using finasteride. This was four years ago and I have not used finasteride for years, but the excessive hairloss (200+ daily) continues. Last year I decided that the best thing I could probably do, is life as healthy as possible. This is why I started taking to 'health foods' - The Ultimate Meal, and Emerald Balance - which people are raving about on the net. I started with these around october 2007. I took one sachet of Emerald Balance daily, and one blender with fruit and 2 to 3 scoops of The Ultimate Meal. In the beginning of 2008, my acne suddenly became a lot worse again, after having it under control by using Proactiv. Also, my hair has gotten a lot worse too during those months. I find it hard to believe that this is causes by taking those two health foods, but maybe someone on here can give me an explanation? Below are the ingredients for the products. I couldn't really find anything that could be causing acne or increased hairloss, but if anyone does, please reply. - Emerald Balance: "The ultimate whole body superfood! Antioxidant power of 8-10 servings of fruits and vegetables. 100% natural pH balancing. Naturally energizing. Full month supply. Immune Booster Spirulina, barley grass, chlorella astragalus, royal jelly, aloe vera, and probiotics all help support and maintain the immune system. Detoxify Milk thistle, dandelion, parsley, watercress, fiber and superfoods all help support in the detoxification of the liver, kidneys and colon. Tastes Great! Great tasting antioxidant powder blend of red raspberries, blueberries, pineapple, orange juice, apple fiber, green tea and spearmint Healthy Aging Antioxidants found in red raspberries, blueberries, green tea, bioflavonoids, and vitamin C, E and A all help to maintain and extend the life of your cells. Connective Tissue, hair, skin and nails Silica rich bamboo and horsetail help support and strengthen hair, nails, and connective tissue such as ligaments, muscles, bones, joints, blood and skin. Muscle Recovery and Inflammation Ginger, tumeric and aloe vera help aid in reducing inflammation and support the recovery of sore muscles." - The Ultimate Meal: "Calories 170 Protein 16 g Carbohydrates 20 g Fiber 8 g Fat 4 g Sodium 95 mg Potassium 175 mg Beta Carotene 5000 IU Vitamin B12 15 mcg Folic Acid 125 mg Iron 4 mg Choline 300 mg Omega 3 770 mg Omega 6 350 mg The Ultimate Quinoa (Bolivia & USA - Exclusively in) 0 The Ultimate Millet (USA- Exclusively in) 0 Brown Rice Protein 70% Concentrate (Belgium) 0 Yellow Pea Protein 90% Isolate (GMO-Free)(Belgium) 0 Certified Organic Raw Flax Seed Meal (Canada) 0 Certified Pesticide-Free Spirulina (India) 2000 mg De-Oiled Plant Lecithin (Non-GMO)(USA) 1500 mg The Ultimate Broccoli (USA - Exclusively in 500 mg Ester-C (buffered w/calcium & magnesium)(USA) 500 mg Wildcrafted Fresh Freeze-Dried Horesetail Herb (USA) 400 mg Natural Vitamin E Succinate (Non-GMO)(Germany) 300 IU Calcium Malate & Citrate 22% (USA) 250 mg Citrus Bioflavonoid Complex 50% (USA) 200 mg Magnesium Citrate 11.5% (USA) 125 mg Wildcrafted Fresh Freeze Dried Nettles (USA) 100 mg Opti-Pure Co-Enzyme Q10 (Japan) 20 mg Opti-Pure Ginkgo Biloba Extract 24-6% (Japan) 20 mg Opti-Pure Grape Seed Extract (Japan) 20 mg Opti-Pure Alpha Lipoic Acid 95% (Japan) 20 mg Opti-Pure Caffeine-Free Green Tea Extract (Japan) 20 mg Emed-MT Milk Thistle Extract 80% (Spain) 20 mg Steveoside (highest contcentration of stevia)(Brazil) 20 mg L-OptiZinc (Natural Zinc Monomethionine)(USA) 5 mg ChromeMate (Chromium Polynicotinate)(USA) 100 mcg Natural Yeast-Free Selenium (USA) 100 mcg | ||
| Sirius New member Username: Sirius Post Number: 5 Registered: 01-2008 |
I can't say anything about the ultimate meal, but if you're concerned about acne you might want to research Apple Cider Vinegar. I've heard it works wonders for acne, it might be worth looking into. http://www.earthclinic.com/CURES/acne.html scroll down till you see it. | ||
| joshua New member Username: Josh Post Number: 8 Registered: 09-2007 |
Thanks Sirius, though it doesn't answer my questions, that link you posted seems interesting. I'll check it out. Anyone else who can offer his two cents on this? | ||
| Ray New member Username: Rayd Post Number: 46 Registered: 12-2006 |
I have taken the ultimate meal for about four months and i noticed no acne from taking it. it may be that you are allergenic to one of the ingredients. I know that certain foods i eat will cause acne, such as peanut butter. Not sure if this helps you out. Try removing one or the other for a while and see if you get any relieve. Man if its not one thing its another. Good luck any other questions feel free to ask. | ||
| Todd New member Username: Jordantrew Post Number: 1 Registered: 03-2008 |
The best thing you can do (in my opinion) is exercise with a balanced diet. Exercise is great for your skin and hair. Check this article out that I quite like of the benefits of exercise http://www.webmd.com/skin-beauty/guide/exercise-your-body-your-skin | ||
| Tom Hagerty Moderator Username: Admin Post Number: 3513 Registered: 01-2003 |
Todd: I think that you're right: Exercise and a balanced diet is great for skin and hair. I agree with the three-page article except for the last few paragraphs. "Our experts agree that facial exercises, movements designed specifically to tone the muscles of the face, aren't likely to help your skin." I hope you question this assertion. It looks plausible and after all several doctors endorse it. Go to my other website and check out an alternative assertion - Shape Your Face. I'd like to hear what you think. Don't worry. I'm open to opposing views if they are well thought out. | ||
| Bob Dylan New member Username: Bobdylan Post Number: 14 Registered: 04-2007 |
Joshua! How long ago did you stop using finasteride? I have been experiencing something similar. / Bob | ||
| joshua New member Username: Josh Post Number: 9 Registered: 09-2007 |
Thanks for the replies guys. Ray: The possibility of an allergy crossed my mind too. I have stopped taking the two products for a few weeks, and my acne cleared up a whole lot. Don't know if I can draw any conclusions from it yet, though. Todd, Tom: I also believe that proper exercise with a balanced diet must be great for your skin and hair, so you'll understand the letdown after a few months of doing what I thought was the right thing, and suddenly seeing my skin and hair getting a lot worse. Bob Dylan: I have stopped using finasteride for about 3,5 years now. I developed severe acne and diffuse hairloss, plus weird sebum on my scalp, after three months of using the stuff (1 mg daily). I just can't get rid of the acne and can't halt the hairloss, or even slow it down a little. What did you experience, and did you manage to overcome the side effects? Thanks again everybody. | ||
| Tom Hagerty Moderator Username: Admin Post Number: 3515 Registered: 01-2003 |
joshua: In your first message in this thread you wrote, "This is why I started taking to 'health foods' - The Ultimate Meal, and Emerald Balance - which people are raving about on the net." Would you give me a link to some of these "ravings" about The Ultimate Meal and Emerald Balance. I want to read what people are saying about these products. Do you think the testimonials are real? "Emerald Balance: The ultimate whole body superfood! Antioxidant power of 8-10 servings of fruits and vegetables. 100% natural pH balancing. Naturally energizing." I think I'd prefer to get my nutrients from the fruits and vegetables themselves. But I understand the great lure of getting a superabundance of nutrients in a small package. Did you know that the Food and Drug Administration does not require supplement manufacturers to prove their claims? (Cosmetics manufacturers don't have to prove their claims either.) The ingredients list has to be accurate though. | ||
| joshua New member Username: Josh Post Number: 10 Registered: 09-2007 |
Tom, I read about The Ultimate Meal on a website called kahunka.com. I looked it up on www.vitacost.com and read good (and I think legitimate) reviews about it. The website of the product is http://www.ultimatelife.com. You might find it an interesting read. The Ultimate Meal is manufactured using real foods. I just thought that Emerald Balance would be a nice add to The Ultimate Meal, taking one sachet in the morning. Didn't see much harm in the product, but wasn't expecting a miracle either. | ||
| joshua New member Username: Josh Post Number: 11 Registered: 09-2007 |
The Ultimate Meal also has nothing but good reviews on Amazon.com btw. I still have two jars of the stuff, but am reluctant to start using it again in my current situation, even though it's supposed to be a great supplement... Bob Dylan - can you tell some more about your experience with finasteride? | ||
| Tom Hagerty Moderator Username: Admin Post Number: 3517 Registered: 01-2003 |
joshua: "The Ultimate Meal is manufactured using real foods." In other words, The Ultimate Meal is a processed food, even though a highly nutritious one. I usually stay away from processed foods. Well, maybe brewer's yeast and cod liver oil, which I take, are processed foods too. Who knows what nutrition guru to follow these days. They all seem to make some sense, and the testimonials for all the products are glowing. Maybe we should all just live on supplements and forget about steamed broccoli, Alaska salmon, walnuts, blueberries, and oatmeal. | ||
| Bob Dylan New member Username: Bobdylan Post Number: 15 Registered: 04-2007 |
Joashua: I was also using finasteride, was on it for about 2,5 years in total. I experienced bad side effects, but not the ones you most commonly read about like sexual dysfunction. My sexual health was always and is operational. The side effects I was experiencing was swollen face, itchy irritated scalp and bad acne. It is now about 3,5 years ago I stopped using this systemic drug. My face is no longer swollen but I can’t get rid of the acne, which has gotten better, but it’s still there. However, I keep the acne under control with proactive. Also my itchy scalp has gotten better. Today I also started a new diet, inspired from a book called “the dietary cure for acne” by Loren Cordain. You read about it on www.dietaryacnecure.com. I have bought the book and I think it makes a lot of sense. Is your acne still bad? Bob Dylan | ||
| Tom Hagerty Moderator Username: Admin Post Number: 3518 Registered: 01-2003 |
Bob Dylan: Could you give us some of the dietary advice you got from the book. I know we should send Dr. Loren Cordain $19.95 and get the information straight from him, but for those of us who are too cheap to send him the cash, perhaps you could just summarize his ideas here. I also think diet is the most important component for controlling acne. I hope the ideas in the doctor's book help you with your problem. Probably a good acne diet is also good for the hair follicles. | ||
| joshua New member Username: Josh Post Number: 12 Registered: 09-2007 |
Bob Dylan: your story could have been written by me, I experienced the same things (and still do). Did you also notice increased hairloss? What did you do about your irritated scalp? The advice in the book that you mention probably comes down to eating a lot of the 'good fats', and avoiding saturated fats. I've read similar diet books to clear acne. However, everytime I take more EFA's like fish oil, my acne gets worse again. | ||
| Bob Dylan New member Username: Bobdylan Post Number: 16 Registered: 04-2007 |
Tom Hagerty and Joshua: Absolutely! Underneath I have put together a summary with basic guidelines from the book. Loren Cordain promotes launching with a strict 30 day phase of the diet and then gradually add certain foods back. Because it takes about 30 days for your skin cells to completely renew themselves, you will need to strictly adhere to the diet for about a month. • For the strict 30 day phase of the diet, the following foods need to be avoided: refined sugars, refined grains, refined oils, dairy products, legumes, whole grains, and potatoes. Since all processed foods are really nothing more than mixtures of sugars, grains, oils and dairy products, these foods should be avoided or eliminated for the 30 day run-in. • After you have experienced dramatic improvement of your acne, then the second phase of the diet begins in which you gradually add certain foods back into your diet. Carefully monitor your symptoms as you add more and more food back into your diet. Adding food back into your diet isn’t a license to go back to your old way of eating. “The Dietary Cure for Acne” is not a diet at all but a brand new healthful way of eating for life. • By eliminating whole grains and dairy foods from your diet and replacing them with fresh fruits, vegetables, lean meats, fish and seafood, you will actually increase the vitamins, minerals and fiber in your diet. • By increasing your intake of fresh fruits and vegetables and by avoiding or eliminating processed foods made with refined sugars, grains and vegetable oils, your diet will be net alkaline yielding, thereby promoting calcium balance and good bone mineral health, despite the lack of dairy foods in your diet. • To promote more rapid clearing of your acne symptoms he suggest that you supplement your diet with fish oil capsules (2-4 grams of DHA + EPA) and zinc (50 mg) for the initial 30 day run-in. • Margarine and milk are fortified with vitamin D because there is little or no vitamin D in everyday foods. We naturally make vitamin D in our skins, following sunlight exposure. However, if you don’t get regular sun, he recommend that you take 1,000 I.U. of vitamin D daily. • There are no exotic foods required for this diet to work. All of the foods that you will need to improve your acne such as fresh fruits, vegetables, lean meats, fish and seafood are easily obtainable at your local supermarket. Joshua: I noticed extreme hairloss the following year after I stopped using finasteride, but now my hairloss seems normal. I’m doing the scalp exercise everyday 10-15 minutes twice a day, and have been doing this for about 4 years. The process is unbelievably slow, but at least it’s a positive process, since I’m maintaining my hair and sometimes I actually notice one or two new hairs along my hairline. My vertex is a little bit thin, but it’s not noticeable for others than me. My vertex has looked the same for the last 5 or 6 years. I’m 27 years old by the way. The SE is actually what gave me confidence to quit finasteride, so thanks Tom! I’m not using any other drug or special shampoo. I used to shampoo couple times a week with fungoral, this is called nizoral in some countries (contains ketokonazol) but I quit about a year ago, for no reason. My scalp isn’t perfect today, itches sometimes, but it is okay, no dandruff or anything. Hope this helps you out, Joshua. Seems we experienced something similar here, I probably have lot of questions to ask. // Bob Dylan | ||
| Tom Hagerty Moderator Username: Admin Post Number: 3520 Registered: 01-2003 |
Bob Dylan: First, let's get this out of the way. You obviously are a fan of the real Bob Dylan or you would not have used his name. Have you seen I'm Not There? Plot outline - Ruminations on the life of Bob Dylan, where six characters embody a different aspect of the musician's life and work. I'm a huge fan of Bob Dylan. Martin Scorsese's film on Public TV - No Direction Home - made me even a more rabid fan. His genius in the years when he was productive was incredible. A few things about your new diet: You wrote, "...your diet will be net alkaline yielding, thereby promoting calcium balance and good bone mineral health, despite the lack of dairy foods in your diet." I hope you're right about this. You definitely need sufficient calcium in your diet. Some experts say 800 milligrams; Dr. Andrew Weil says 500 milligrams for adult males. You also wrote, "To promote more rapid clearing of your acne symptoms he suggest that you supplement your diet with fish oil capsules (2-4 grams of DHA + EPA) and zinc (50 mg) for the initial 30 day run-in." I agree with this but I think you should add some some copper to your regimen. High intakes of zinc interfere with copper metabolism. It also might result in a loss of both copper and iron from the liver. Copper is important for the formation of melanin, the pigment that gives color to the hair. Some people who take large amounts of zinc over a period of time without copper supplementation have prematurely gray or white hair. Other than these suggestions, I think Loren Cordain's program is excellent for both skin health and hair health. I'm glad you told us about the program with your usual clarity and precision. | ||
| joshua New member Username: Josh Post Number: 13 Registered: 09-2007 |
Yeah thanks for posting that info, Bob Dylan. I hope the diet works out for you. I eat pretty healthy already, but don't see a change in my acne or hairloss. But hey, at least I'm won't become fat. My diet wasn't extremely healthy before starting finasteride, and my hair was fine back then. Three months of usage later, and I suddenly get horrible acne and severe hairloss. I don't think that I can solve those things by starting to eat more healthy. A poor diet wasn't the cause of my symptoms; the hormonal drug finasteride was. Maybe the stuff messed up my endocrine system. Will I ever know for sure what caused all this? Probably not. | ||
| Bob Dylan New member Username: Bobdylan Post Number: 17 Registered: 04-2007 |
Tom Hagerty: Watched "I’m not there" last week! I was truly pleased with the concept of this poetic movie. If you have seen the documentary "Don’t look back" by D.A. Pennebaker, where he follows Bob Dylan on his 1965 concert tour of England, you probably noticed the many amazing resemblances with Cate Blanchetts character. I think Bob Dylan is one of the best contemporary poets we have seen. His ability to tell stories is amazing, and still is. I'm a huge fan as well. About calcium Loren Cordain writes in his book that what we really need to pay attention to is the other side of the calcium balance equation – the calcium leaving our bodies. Dietary acid/base balance is the single most important factor influencing calcium loss in the urine. Net acid producing diets overloaded with grains, cheeses and salty, processed foods increase urinary calcium losses. The diet Loren Cordain promotes is rich in alkaline yielding fruits and vegetables that promote calcium balance and bone mineral health. About zinc Excellent you pointed out the matter of zinc. I’m actually currently only using supplements containing fish oil and vitamin D, and I’m not planning on adding zinc because of this slight risk. As Loren Cordain himself writes in his book, quite often we think that if a little bit of something is good, then a whole lot must be better. Definitely not the case for zinc! Excess zinc supplementation (>100 mg per day) for extended periods frequently results in a copper deficiency. However he recommends 50 mg of zinc, and then cut back down to 25 mg after the initial 30 day run-in. Joshua: I will keep you updated about progress, success or embarrassing failure! | ||
| joshua New member Username: Josh Post Number: 14 Registered: 09-2007 |
Thanks Bob Dylan, I'm interested in hearing your results after a month or so of following that program. | ||
| joshua New member Username: Josh Post Number: 15 Registered: 09-2007 |
In regards to my original post: after I stopped taking both Emerald Balance and the Ultimate Meal, my acne started to clear up again. Recently I continued taking one sachet daily of Emerald Balance, and what do you know: my acne flared up again after only a few days, in the same manner it did after taking the product for the first time. So I threw my remaining sachets of the stuff away, and am now only taking a few tablespoons of The Ultimate Meal daily, in a blender with some fruits. No acne from this whatsoever. Bob Dylan - how's your diet going? | ||
| joshua New member Username: Josh Post Number: 16 Registered: 09-2007 |
An update on my side: I believe I figured out what was constantly causing acne and increased hairloss over the last four years; the culprit is any inhibitor of the 5ar-enzyme, which my body reacts negatively to. As I wrote before, this all started with finasteride, which is ofcourse a powerful 5ar-inhibitor. After I realised that this drug was definitely not going to help me and I stopped using it, I frantically started looking around for supplements that could aid in halting the loss of around 250 hairs daily. I pretty much tried every supplement that is claimed to have some benefit for hairloss, a lot of which were 5ar inhibitors too: saw palmetto, nettle, horsetail, borage oil, green tea, etc. A lot of these are also present in The Ultimate Meal, which is no doubt the cause of the onset of acne and hairloss that I had early this year. I got in contact with another guy who has the same problem with 5ar-inhibitors, who told me that it doesn't matter which supplement or drug you take; if it inhibits the 5ar enzyme it will cause increased acne and hairloss. I regret that I didn't figure this out sooner; maybe my hair would have been in better shape now. I only quit using every type of 5ar-inhibitor about 6 weeks ago, so I still have acne and diffuse hairloss. I truly hope these symptoms will diminish in the future, now that I pretty much know what products to avoid. Can anybody contribute to this story? Do I have a change to regain some of the hair that I lost over the past years, now that I have stopped taking any supplement that could have a negative impact on recovery? Thanks for reading, Joshua | ||
| Tom Hagerty Moderator Username: Admin Post Number: 3575 Registered: 01-2003 |
Joshua: My response has nothing to do with your theory - "the culprit is any inhibitor of the 5ar-enzyme" - but you might find the following paragraph instructive: Skins tests on those with Acne have found that, even though their blood glucose tests normal, their skin's glucose tolerance is significantly impaired (2). Bacteria find a rich breeding ground anywhere that sugar is found. If glucose isn't being transported into the cells to be used as energy, it is remaining in the blood stream, and stagnating in areas where bacteria can breed, thus producing infections in the skin, and also elsewhere in the body. To expand on this concept, I wish you'd take a look at my article - Brewer's Yeast and Hair. And be sure to read the sidebar about the glucose tolerance factor (GTF). | ||
| joshua New member Username: Josh Post Number: 17 Registered: 09-2007 |
Thanks for the reply, Tom. I haven't been able to respond sooner. Are you suggesting that adding brewer's yeast to my diet might help with combatting acne? I have actually taken Twinlab brewer's yeast for 7 months or so, but unfortunately did not notice any benefits. This might be because I was also taking saw palmetto and borage oil, among other things, at the time. I am a bit wary these days to start taking any supplement, since I've tried just about everything that could have any benefit hair-wise, and all the results I ever yielded were either acne and increased hairloss or nothing at all (except for less money in my wallet). Also, are you implying that there might be a connection between the glucose tolerance factor and the diffuse hairloss I'm experiencing? I didn't quit catch what chromium could do in my case. Thanks for your time, Tom. - Joshua | ||
| joshua New member Username: Josh Post Number: 18 Registered: 09-2007 |
Also, in regards to my current situation: I came on these boards in september 2007 to inform about my ongoing increased hairloss and acne after taking finasteride years ago. My hair was looking worser every year, but still looked reasonable at the time. Since I started taking borage oil and The Ultimate Meal around november 2007, I noticed a serious increase in acne after just a few weeks, which I finally had under control with Proactiv. I lost a lot of hair in that period. I was still OK in January this year, but looked liked crap just a month later. I remember looking in the mirror at the time and thinking 'what the hell happened?'. The sides and back, along with the top of my head have thinned drastically in a matter of two months. My body hair also increased a lot since then. I only had some chest hair before, but now there are hairs sprouting everywhere; I can feel fine hairs growing on my back on shoulder heighth, and I see little dark hairs growing everywhere on my stomach. The reaction I had (acne, increased body hair and hairloss) was probably another bout of Reflex Hyperandrogenicity, similarly to the one I experienced months after starting finasteride almost 4 years ago (which I stopped taking a long time ago). My experience is similar to the one that this guy describes on keratin.net: http://www.keratin.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2861 Man, I really wish I figured out sooner that I just shouldn't take anything that messes with the 5ar-enzyme. I'm just hoping that I'll recover somewhat, now that I'm giving my body time to recover from all the supp's I've been taking. Will continue performing the scalp exercise, in hopes of it dealing with the scalp pain I'm experiencing in some places. | ||
| Tom Hagerty Moderator Username: Admin Post Number: 3579 Registered: 01-2003 |
Joshua: Read the response I made to Momtothree - burning Scalp Syndrome. Inflammation in scalp tissue and in the skin of your face and body may have a common cause. "I am a bit wary these days to start taking any supplement..." I don't think of brewer's yeast powder or cod liver oil as supplements. They are real foods, full of vitamins, minerals, amino acids, and even possibly some unidentified nutritional factors working together synergistically. | ||
| joshua New member Username: Josh Post Number: 19 Registered: 09-2007 |
Tom - thanks, as always, for the helpful reply. I haven't been able to post sooner. So basically what you're suggesting in the post to user Momtothree is to avoid stress and adapt an anti-inflammatory diet to reduce this 'substance P'? I just bought a new blender, so I'll start mixing those foods listed on your diet page and try to better my diet even more. Plus I'll continue with the scalp exercise, which I think helps with relieving a thight scalp. It isn't doing anything for the sore spots on my head yet though. I know that you don't see brewer's yeast as a supplement, it's just that I'm reluctant now to start taking any supp. or food in high quantities which may have similar properties as finasteride. I read on this forum sometime ago about brewer's yeast being a 'natural propecia'. That sounds like bad news to me in my current situation where I'm avoiding all stuff with 5ar-inhibiting properties. Plus, I read that lysine and zinc both act like a 5ar-inhibitor. About the sudden increase in hairloss and body hair that I experienced a few months ago: can this case of reflex hyperandrogenicity be reversed, now that I stopped taking the supplements that were causing this? I am a little more positive about my own situation after reading posts from user 'in extremis' on another hairloss forum: http://www.regrowth.com/hairloss-forums/viewthread.cfm?f=1&t=15116 He eventually posted that he regrew a lot of his hair (about a year later). So there are changes of recovering from RH to a certain extent. - joshua | ||
| joshua New member Username: Josh Post Number: 20 Registered: 09-2007 |
While reading the forum post in which user 'in extremis' describes his recovery of Reflex Hyperandrogenicity(http://www.regrowth.com/hairloss-forums/viewthread.cfm?f=1&t=18836#86321), I noticed the mention of natural progesterone cream at the bottom of the page. They are discussing the possibility of progesterone cream increasing testosterone levels, but after doing a little research on the net I found a few websites which actually implicate that the cream might help with getting T-levels back down to normal. This passage is from http://www.power-surge.com/educate/hairloss.htm. Eventhough it's aimed for women it's still an interesting read: "When progesterone levels fall as a result of lack of ovulation, the body responds by increasing its production of the adrenal cortical steroid, androstenedione, an alternative precursor for the production of other adrenal cortical hormones. Androstenedione conveys some androgenic (male-like) properties, in this case, male pattern hair loss. When progesterone levels are raised by natural progesterone supplements, the androstenedione level will gradually fall, and your normal hair growth will eventually resume." Now, user ImmortalHair states on the first mentioned forum page that: "Using natural progesterone will not necessarily increase testosterone, but will very likely will decrease anxiety state, because lowering 5-alpha reductase causes a lack of progesterone, which is required to for healthy neurotransmitters." Is it reasonable to assume that by taking inhibitors of 5-alpha reductase the past few years caused low levels of progesterone, which in turn lead to an unnatural, steady increase in androstenedione levels? Could it then be beneficial to give natural progesterone cream a shot and see if my symptoms might improve? At the top of this page is an example of a guy who used progesterone cream for his hairloss: http://www.dld123.com/q&a/index.php?cid=3427. joshua | ||
| Tom Hagerty Moderator Username: Admin Post Number: 3597 Registered: 01-2003 |
Joshua: You asked, "can this case of reflex hyperandrogenicity be reversed..." Many well-meaning people on the various hair loss forums throw around terms like "reflex hyperandrogenicity" without the full physiological and chemical understanding of what they are talking about. There may be some truth in their guesswork but I wouldn't put too much trust in their messages. After you take hormone-altering drugs, the body always seeks equilibrium or homeostasis. This can take the form of increased hormone production or increased tissue sensitivity to the remaining hormones. After you stop using these drugs, however, it often takes a long time until the body normalizes itself as in the case of Accutane, but it usually does. "I read on this forum sometime ago about brewer's yeast being a 'natural propecia'." I hope I did not write such an idiotic statement. Brewer's yeast is just a good natural source of vitamins, minerals, and amino acids in a balanced, highly bioavailable form. It won't mess up your hormones. "Could it then be beneficial to give natural progesterone cream a shot and see if my symptoms might improve?" I can't give you an informed answer on this question. | ||
| joshua New member Username: Josh Post Number: 21 Registered: 09-2007 |
I'm glad you gave a quick answer, so that I'm still able to reply right away. I'm in the process of moving at the moment and don't have an internet connection set up yet. After experiencing the side effects from finasteride which I posted earlier (horrible acne at age 20 which was never present in puberty, oily face, loss of around 250 hairs daily, sudden increase in body hair, sebum buildup on scalp) I went to doctors and derms who all did not have much knowledge on the subject of hairloss; a problem that a lot of people encounter, judging by all the forum posts on websites like this one. I read a lot on the subject and Reflex Hyperandrogenicity is the only condition which lists all the symptoms that I experience(d) myself. Eventhough this was not diagnosed by a professional, I still think it's fairly reasonable to assume that it's RH what I experienced a few months after starting with the drug finasteride. I did not know this at the time of taking finasteride, so I foolishly continued taking the drug for almost a year, thinking that the sudden onset hairloss was a 'shedding'. The earlier mentioned side-effects decreased somewhat after stopping finasteride, but never went away entirely. This is something that puzzles me. I wonder what finasteride did to my body to disrupt the endocrine system so badly. Just recently I was informed by another person who went through the same experiences as me, that not only finasteride, but any 5ar-inhinitor gives him all these symptoms like acne and increased hairloss. Everytime he would use a 'natural' product like saw palmetto, the acne would soon come back, followed by hairloss. This has got me thinking, since I frantically searched for something that could halt my seemingly unstoppable hairloss after quiting finasteride. Among the supplements I tried, there were various 5-alpha reductase-inhibitors, like borage oil, green tea extract and saw palmetto. When I used borage oil along with The Ultimate Meal (which contains a variety of 5-ar inhibitors) last year, my hair became so much worse in just a matter of two months. Therefore I'm now trying to avoid the aforementioned products with 5ar-inhibiting properties to see if it helps out. I dug up the topic about brewer's yeast being compared to propecia: http://www.hairloss-reversible.com/discus/messages/1/4836.html. User jpj - who is a well-informed guy, judging from his posts - compares brewer's yeast to propecia because of its phytoestrogens. Anyway, I'm glad to read that you state that "It won't mess up your hormones." Maybe I'll get some of it again (now without taking all sorts of supplements besides it) and throw it in the blender along with some anti-inflammatory foods. Could you elaborate some more on the 'substance P' which you quote about in your post to user Momtothree? You advice against medication to keep this under control, but the scalp exercise along with a proper diet comes a long way? Thanks for your time, Joshua | ||
| Tom Hagerty Moderator Username: Admin Post Number: 3603 Registered: 01-2003 |
Joshua: "User jpj - who is a well-informed guy, judging from his posts - compares brewer's yeast to propecia because of its phytoestrogens." Here's what he said, "brewers yeast (youve been taking a natural form of propecia for years Tom)" I'm sure jpj, who is a friend of mine, was just being a little over-enthusiastic about the product. Brewer's yeast is not a chemical 5 alpha-reductase inhibitor as is Propecia; it is just a fantastic blend of easily assimilated nutrients. Get the powder, not the pills. Type "substance P" in Google and you'll find many scientific articles. | ||
| joshua New member Username: Josh Post Number: 22 Registered: 09-2007 |
Tom, about your post to momtothree about substance P: "Other suggested treatments have included non-irritating shampoos, topical antipruritic or anesthetic agents, topical capsaicin, and corticosteroids. The treatments: I don't like any of them, but of course when you go to a doctor, you expect a prescription and he obliges you." You state that you don't like any of these treatments, but what about capsaicin for reducing substance P? Capsaicin can be obtained by adding pepper to ones diet, or by taking the supplement. My acne is clearing up again, which I hope is also good news for my hair. I will try to score some brewer's yeast powder here in The Netherlands. I used to get it out of the States, but the shipping rates and taxes seem to get higher all the time. Now if only the scalp exercise will start doing its work :-), I hope to get some success in the future. My scalp isn't tight, but I have sore spots on it. I guess this is due to inflammation. | ||
| Tom Hagerty Moderator Username: Admin Post Number: 3616 Registered: 01-2003 |
joshua: Read what Dr. Dave says about capsaicin - Scalp Transformation. You'll love this guy. | ||
| joshua New member Username: Josh Post Number: 23 Registered: 09-2007 |
Tom - after using just one application of Dr. Dave's Magical Potion, I woke up with a Chewbacca-like head of hair. The culprit must have been the brewer's yeast that I decided to add into the mix. Do you think that by taking the scalp exercise up a notch, I can shake my scalp back and forth fast enough to make the unwanted new hair growth fly away? Please take some time off from your daily ear wiggling ritual to help a hairy brother out. | ||
| Tom Hagerty Moderator Username: Admin Post Number: 3618 Registered: 01-2003 |
joshua: K, in a confidential email to me, said he took the scalp exercise up a notch, exercising fast and furious for many hours. He's had success in losing his unwanted hair as you can see in the photo.  | ||
| joshua New member Username: Josh Post Number: 24 Registered: 09-2007 |
K must be a hit with the ladies now, after all those hours of torturing his occipitalis. Now if only he would grow a moustache, he could become a VIP member of the 'Bald men with moustaches' club, along with Dr. Dave and that other highly reputable dr., Dr. Phil. |
