| Author | Message | ||
     Ram |
Hi all: I have been reading a lot of topics on these forums and have been trying a variety of approaches to stop my hairloss. I started the scalp exercises two months ago and do them for 10 minutes every day. I also take multivitamin tablets and have been taking green tea and saw palmetto extract supplements. After reading more, I have come to the conclusion that saw palmetto does not work. I have not noticed any difference yet and I don't think it will work. I like the following solution suggested by Pete AM: Epilobium omega 3/6 Zinc picolinate PM: Epilobium Pantothenic acid Lecithin B Complex However, my question is how much dosage should I take. There are different dosages available and I do not want to overdo anything. Secondly, I am also going to try taking misoh soup suggested by jennifer. Hopefully, the combination of these will halt my hair loss. I think this site is great and thanks for all the info. | ||
| pete |
"I have come to the conclusion that saw palmetto does not work. I have not noticed any difference yet and I don't think it will work. " 1)I would not discount SP, it has merit in a regime. Although I do not take it personally. When you talk about SP, there are formulas already available which have isolated the actives.ie beta, stigma, campe. So you if you want to go down the SP route try a better active SP formula. "I like the following solution suggested by Pete" 2)AM: Epilobium - 500mg omega 3/6 1.5 gram / 500mg Zinc picolinate 15- 25mg PM: Epilobium - 500mg Pantothenic acid 500 - 1000mg Lecithin 500 - 1000mg B Complex "However, my question is how much dosage should I take. There are different dosages available and I do not want to overdo anything. " 3)I have gone to great lengths to balance my regime out via trial and error and trying to apply some logic. You need to find out what works for you best and in what combination. "Secondly, I am also going to try taking misoh soup suggested by jennifer. " 4)Try it. Although I take lecithin would good results. ie my body dumps any excess fats out of my system. This helps with the upregulation that seems to be going on in my case. Take care. Pete | ||
| Tom Hagerty |
Pete: You use the word upregulation often. Could you give us your definition of the word. In molecular biology the word has a specific definition: it's the increase in the number and sensitivity of receptors on the surface of target cells or within these cells. These cells then become more sensitive to hormones or other molecules. Do you use the word in this sense, or do you mean by upregulation the absorption of a nutrient - synonymous with uptake? | ||
| pete |
"Could you give us your definition of the word." Tom: I use my terms fairly loosely as I feel sometimes people can get to caught up with jargon. When I talk about upregulation - Im talking about DHT converting via cholesterol pathway. When I talk about inflammation Im talking about increasing Prostaglandins pathway to reduce inflammation. When I talk about inhibition. I am talking about increasing your Testosterone pathway whilst blocking DHT and Estradiol. | ||
| pete |
PS When trying to block this upregulation I have learned its important not to upset the Essential Fatty acid balance in the body. | ||
| Ram |
Hey Pete: Thanks for the answers. They are a great help. What do you mean by "I have learned its important not to upset the Essential Fatty acid balance in the body. " Do I need to do anything in particular to avoid this? Thanks, Ram. | ||
| pete |
"Hey Pete: Thanks for the answers. They are a great help. What do you mean by "I have learned its important not to upset the Essential Fatty acid balance in the body. " Do I need to do anything in particular to avoid this? " I take an EFA formula to increase benefical prostaglandins to help with inflammation. I also take something to emulsify my fats which helps break down and dump any excess fats out of my system. | ||
| Jenifer |
>>I also take something to emulsify my fats which helps break down and dump any excess fats out of my system. That's lecithin, right? Why be mysterious about it? :-) | ||
| pete |
"That's lecithin, right? Why be mysterious about it? " Not being mysterious its listed in my regime above and I have talked about it numerous times.  | ||
| Jenifer |
Ah, but someone who has not read your previous writings might not know what that "something to emulsify my fats" would be :-) | ||
| jik |
hey pete i'd like to know about the piroctine olamine shampoo that you use to counter inflammation - (is that spelt right?) how exactly does it work? i saw a shampoo today with a another kind of olamine, beginning with a "c".it was on the same shelf as the nizoral. I've been using nizoral 2%, and found it beats the inflam, but thins me a bit too. | ||
| pete |
"hey pete i'd like to know about the piroctine olamine shampoo that you use to counter inflammation - (is that spelt right?) how exactly does it work? i saw a shampoo today with a another kind of olamine, beginning with a "c".it was on the same shelf as the nizoral. I've been using nizoral 2%, and found it beats the inflam, but thins me a bit too." I actually alternate my shampoos. I use the Regenerator brand and T/Gel which contains Piroctone Olamine. The ingredient helps with inflammation. There are a couple of studies floating around: http://www.drmirkin.com/archive/6943.html Take care Pete | ||
| Jenifer |
Checked out that link, found this part especially interesting: "More than 30 years ago, several studies showed that a cream containing another female hormone, called progesterone, slowed hair loss in male pattern baldness." I've seen progesterone cream recommended for both men and women before, but was not sure how it helped men. I am using Pro-Gest cream myself as part of my approach to keeping my hair growing well, and I think it's helping. I'm interested in pursuing this aspect further... | ||
| pete |
"I've seen progesterone cream recommended for both men and women before, but was not sure how it helped men. I am using Pro-Gest cream myself as part of my approach to keeping my hair growing well, and I think it's helping. I'm interested in pursuing this aspect further..." Progestoerone cream in a liposome base may help balance a womens hormones and help their hairloss. It stops Estrogen dominance. I dont think its a good substance for men however. For men, you need to something that blocks DHT/ inflammation/ upregulation. | ||
| Jenifer |
Pete, read that quote again. Studies showed that progesterone cream slowed hair loss in men. According to what I have found out, progesterone cream does block DHT in both men and women. Check out these links: http://www.allonhealth.com/natural-progesterone/progesterone-for-men.htm http://www.feelgood2000.com/how_to_use/progesterone_for_men.asp | ||
| pete |
"Pete, read that quote again. Studies showed that progesterone cream slowed hair loss in men. According to what I have found out, progesterone cream does block DHT in both men and women. Check out these links: " Thanks for the links. I wouldnt use progesterone cream for male hairloss. Though I feel it has benefit for womens hairloss. | ||
| Jenifer |
Well, you should certainly do what you want, Pete, but I think this info does clearly show that progesterone blocks DHT in both men and women, thus it has value for hairloss in both. | ||
| pete |
You have to have to follow your logic as do I | ||
| Jenifer |
Sure! But I am curious about your logic...do you think the info at those sites is incorrect? | ||
| Jenifer |
I've been researching this further. It's not easy to find info on the subject, but here's a couple of links and quotes: from: http://www.tech-sol.net/ultrapms/progesterone/ED-cause1.htm The environment is so flooded with estrogen men as well as women suffer from estrogen dominance. In men there has been a 50% decrease in sperm count since 1938 and increased incidence of testicular and prostate cancer due to estrogen dominance. from: http://tsangenterprise.com/news75.htm Natural progesterone cream might decrease male balding due to the corresponding rise in testosterone.<< Most sources emphasize prostate health in men as a reason to use progesterone. especially as they get older. But hair loss is one of the symptoms of progesterone deficiency, and estrogen dominance can cause this or make it worse. With all the estrogens in our diet and our environment, it makes me wonder if this might be the reason so many guys are losing their hair early in life, and if progesterone might help them. Yoo-hoo, Tom--whatcha think?? | ||
| pete |
"Most sources emphasize prostate health in men as a reason to use progesterone. especially as they get older. But hair loss is one of the symptoms of progesterone deficiency, and estrogen dominance can cause this or make it worse. With all the estrogens in our diet and our environment, it makes me wonder if this might be the reason so many guys are losing their hair " Ive been researching for quite a while as youi can tell from my posts. For men - progesterone creams wont be much use in my opinion. When men age Estradiol increases which increases SHBG which bind more free testosterone to this carries molecule. The body then tries to compensate for this by increasing DHT. What is needed is something that inhibits 5ar and aromatase enzymes (this is just one piece in the puzzle to halt loss). The other factors are to stop the inflammation and Upregualtion. | ||
| Jenifer |
Well, Pete, as you said, you have your logic and I have mine. I still think that the high levels of estrogen in our modern-day environment and diet may be causing estrogen dominance and resulting hair loss at an early age in both men and women. I don't know if progesterone cream is the answer, per se, but I think this ought to be investigated further. Wish I could find that study cited above that showed progesterone slowed hair loss in men. | ||
| pete |
"Well, Pete, as you said, you have your logic and I have mine. I still think that the high levels of estrogen in our modern-day environment and diet may be causing estrogen dominance and resulting hair loss at an early age in both men and women. " Re - read my post again: "When men age Estradiol increases which increases SHBG which bind more free testosterone to this carries molecule. The body then tries to compensate for this by increasing DHT. What is needed is something that inhibits 5ar and aromatase enzymes " The best way round the increasing Estradiol is to block aromatase enzyme. | ||
| Jenifer |
"The best way round the increasing Estradiol is to block aromatase enzyme." OK...how?? | ||
| Anonymous |
Epilobium? | ||
| pete |
"The best way round the increasing Estradiol is to block aromatase enzyme. Epilobium?" Well this the route I use to lower DHT and Estradiol - so for me yes. Besides taking this I look after other pathways to help me reverse my hairloss: 1)DHT - Epilobium and Zinc Picolinate 2)Cholesterol - Pantothenic acid and Lecithin 3)Inflammation - Fish oil and Evening Primrose oils 4)Lifestyle - high in veg and wholefoods with limited duretics/salt/sugar/fats. | ||
| mick33 |
Hi pete,, I dont understand your approach at all,,you say you have changed your lifestyle ie, high in veg,wholefoods etc.This alone would result in good health all round and i strongly believe a mainly raw healthy diet kept up for a lengthy period (ie,at least six months)would lesson hair loss in the long term for most people except for really aggressive early MPB. My questions for you therefore are , why on earth would you need to take lecithin for cholesterol when the best method to control this is the diet in the first place. Why take excess zinc when it is proven to counter balance other essential minerals i strongly believe now due to experimenting with vitamins/minerals for many years that taking anything in isolation can only have a negative effect on the body in the long term . What proven success have you had with your supplements ?? and would it not be better for you just to concentrate on your diet and EFA s . | ||
| pete |
"Hi pete,, I dont understand your approach at all,,you say you have changed your lifestyle ie, high in veg,wholefoods etc.This alone would result in good health all round and i strongly believe a mainly raw healthy diet kept up for a lengthy period (ie,at least six months)would lesson hair loss in the long term for most people except for really aggressive early MPB. " 1)Lifestyle factors can influence DHT ie fats /sugars and durietcs. "My questions for you therefore are , why on earth would you need to take lecithin for cholesterol when the best method to control this is the diet in the first place. " 2)Your body can overide your dietary habits to over-produce cholesterol. "Why take excess zinc when it is proven to counter balance other essential minerals i strongly believe now due to experimenting with vitamins/minerals for many years that taking anything in isolation can only have a negative effect on the body in the long term . " 3)I take broad spectrum minerals daily for general health. Zinc is a cheap DHT inhibitor which works well alongside Epilobium. "What proven success have you had with your supplements ?? " 4)I have just spent along time putting this regime together. The element I have been trying to get right is that of the Upregulation of DHT. Therefore I have been trying to get the combination and dosages right - I believe I have this right now! In only a couple of weeks im seeing the excess oil reducing in my scalp, thus DHT. "and would it not be better for you just to concentrate on your diet and EFA s ." 5)Nope, DHT has multiple pathways. I have concentrated on the pathways which I think are most important. __________________________________________________ My Natural Regime : DHT - (1)Epilobium (with built in chromium ) = 500mg 2 times daily and (2)Zinc Picolinate (helps with Prolactin also) = 15 - 25mg daily Cholesterol - (3)Pantothenic acid = 500mg - 1000mg and (4)Lecithin= 500mg - 1000mg daily Inflammation - (5)Omega 3 = 500mg -1000mg and (6) Omega 6 = 500mg - 1000mg Shampoo - (7)Piroctone Olamine shampoo to help with inflammation. Lifestyle - high in veg and wholefoods with limited duretics/sugar/fats. |
